Should We Stay Or Should We Go

[saintnextlifetime]

I would prefer to see an unbiased report on stuff like this.

Oh and a report which avoids dumbed down phrases and headlines too.

That report is basically pointing out the suppressive nature in which European policy is written . I don't see how that is a bias.

The phrases you refer to are the actual wordage of the policy.

Dumbing down , don't really get that . Though , large portions of the population may have been dumbed down to an extent that , now they are willing to vote for governance from a corrupt European Club that has an unelected, undemocratic body as it's top tier. .

[oaksoft]

That report is basically pointing out the suppressive nature in which European policy is written . I don't see how that is a bias.

The phrases you refer to are the actual wordage of the policy.

Dumbing down , don't really get that . Though , large portions of the population may have been dumbed down to an extent that , now they are willing to vote for governance from a corrupt European Club that has an unelected, undemocratic body as it's top tier. .

The use of "Shocking" in the title is a classic example of dumbing down.

I don't need to be told to be shocked. I can fathom it out myself.

The word "TRUTH" in bold is designed to ensure I don't miss it.

The word "collapse" is designed to install fear and provoke an immediate reaction.

Then to top it off the exclamation mark at the end ensures we don't fail to understand that this is important.

The whole title is designed to influence those who watch it to take a position of negativity towards the EU before they have had a chance to read the full video for themselves. In short, you will have made up your mind whether you are going to like the video before you have even watched it.

All of this is dumbing down. All of it. And when I see it, I immediately switch off. So do most intelligent people to be fair because you know that you are being manipulated.

The phrases may or may not be actual wordage but they are being selectively quoted without context.

I've learned not to trust that.

So as I said, whilst I am not saying this report is bollox, but it's certainly not balanced and therefore not worth the time they took making it.

Edited February 25, 2016 by oaksoft

[RickMcD]

My heart says f**k the EU but my brain thinks we're too deeply entrenched to withdraw. I had hoped the Greek crisis would cause the whole croc of shit to implode (it still might) because then we could escape without any incrimination. I think if we withdraw unilaterally Germany and France would look for revenge. Cameron must wish by now that he had kept his trap shut. Looks to me like there will be a Brexit and I don't think he thought at the outset it would come to that. And I would add that the SNP are in cloud cuckoo land if they think they are a shoo-in for EU membership if they ever get their yes. Quite a few countries are ahead of Scotland on the waiting list and they are daring the EU to let Scotland in before them. It's far from cut and dried. I would genuinely prefer a EU implosion, shambolic as that would be. Ted Heath would have several serious crime charges to face if he was still alive but getting us into the EU with deceit and false promises is one of the worst.

[oaksoft]

In fairness, it is quite interesting to see both sides of the independence debate largely lining up on the exact opposite side over the EU.

Obviously the EU is different from the independence situation for reasons I explained on other threads but it's still interesting to see.

[Ayrshire Saints]

My heart says f**k the EU but my brain thinks we're too deeply entrenched to withdraw. I had hoped the Greek crisis would cause the whole croc of shit to implode (it still might) because then we could escape without any incrimination. I think if we withdraw unilaterally Germany and France would look for revenge. Cameron must wish by now that he had kept his trap shut. Looks to me like there will be a Brexit and I don't think he thought at the outset it would come to that. And I would add that the SNP are in cloud cuckoo land if they think they are a shoo-in for EU membership if they ever get their yes. Quite a few countries are ahead of Scotland on the waiting list and they are daring the EU to let Scotland in before them. It's far from cut and dried. I would genuinely prefer a EU implosion, shambolic as that would be. Ted Heath would have several serious crime charges to face if he was still alive but getting us into the EU with deceit and false promises is one of the worst.

Get to the bookies - it's well odds on we don't so you will get a great price on us leaving.

[RickMcD]

Let's see. The heart ruling the head made the wee Scottish thingy closer than was envisaged. A week is supposed to be a long time in politics and so is four months. It could be interesting. How accurate were the bookies with the Scottish vote? It's not rhetorical. I genuinely don't know.

[saintnextlifetime]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrdP0GwdYuU

[TediousTom]

Is this about whether England and the English vote to take us out of the EU or not?

I did try reading some of the thread to get a flavour for the conversation at hand but I see Stuart Dickson has hijacked it to demonstrate his hatred of all things Scottish (and Paisley).

I am currently undecided but I am actually leaning towards leaving at the moment.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

My heart says f**k the EU but my brain thinks we're too deeply entrenched to withdraw. I had hoped the Greek crisis would cause the whole croc of shit to implode (it still might) because then we could escape without any incrimination. I think if we withdraw unilaterally Germany and France would look for revenge. Cameron must wish by now that he had kept his trap shut. Looks to me like there will be a Brexit and I don't think he thought at the outset it would come to that. And I would add that the SNP are in cloud cuckoo land if they think they are a shoo-in for EU membership if they ever get their yes. Quite a few countries are ahead of Scotland on the waiting list and they are daring the EU to let Scotland in before them. It's far from cut and dried. I would genuinely prefer a EU implosion, shambolic as that would be. Ted Heath would have several serious crime charges to face if he was still alive but getting us into the EU with deceit and false promises is one of the worst.

Taking UK into EU with false promises and deceit worse than abusing children on a scale similar to Savile. Seriously?

[oaksoft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrdP0GwdYuU

The Fourth Reich.

Your last post starts to appear as fair and balanced next to this.

Forgive me if I don't click.

[saintnextlifetime]

The Fourth Reich.

Your last post starts to appear as fair and balanced next to this.

Forgive me if I don't click.

Yes, that is exactly what they want you to do .

Well done ! I think you might have won a chocolate watch . .

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

My heart says f**k the EU but my brain thinks we're too deeply entrenched to withdraw. I had hoped the Greek crisis would cause the whole croc of shit to implode (it still might) because then we could escape without any incrimination. I think if we withdraw unilaterally Germany and France would look for revenge. Cameron must wish by now that he had kept his trap shut. Looks to me like there will be a Brexit and I don't think he thought at the outset it would come to that. And I would add that the SNP are in cloud cuckoo land if they think they are a shoo-in for EU membership if they ever get their yes. Quite a few countries are ahead of Scotland on the waiting list and they are daring the EU to let Scotland in before them. It's far from cut and dried. I would genuinely prefer a EU implosion, shambolic as that would be. Ted Heath would have several serious crime charges to face if he was still alive but getting us into the EU with deceit and false promises is one of the worst.

Not a member of the SNP but yes vote for them. There has already been an official comment from the EU who said they would support Scotland in a yes vote when the rest of the UK voted NO. Make no mistake England votes to leave Scotland votes to stay it will be another referendum to leave the UK.

[Stuart Dickson]

Not a member of the SNP but yes vote for them. There has already been an official comment from the EU who said they would support Scotland in a yes vote when the rest of the UK voted NO. Make no mistake England votes to leave Scotland votes to stay it will be another referendum to leave the UK.

Where?

Edited February 26, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[salmonbuddie]

No, no, no, don't you get it? He lives in England, he's a homophobe, he's a Natsi, how can you possibly take him seriously.

Think that covers it, StuD, yes?

[Stuart Dickson]

No, no, no, don't you get it? He lives in England, he's a homophobe, he's a Natsi, how can you possibly take him seriously.

Think that covers it, StuD, yes?

I've no idea who you are talking about?

[salmonbuddie]

Patently you do...

[oaksoft]

Yes, that is exactly what they want you to do .

Well done ! I think you might have won a chocolate watch . .

Its called Hobsons choice and you offered me it.

I prefer Oaksofts choice.

[Stuart Dickson]

Patently you do...

Honestly I've no idea. Is it Slartifartypants or Oaksoft?

[saintnextlifetime]

My heart says f**k the EU but my brain thinks we're too deeply entrenched to withdraw. I had hoped the Greek crisis would cause the whole croc of shit to implode (it still might) because then we could escape without any incrimination. I think if we withdraw unilaterally Germany and France would look for revenge. Cameron must wish by now that he had kept his trap shut. Looks to me like there will be a Brexit and I don't think he thought at the outset it would come to that. And I would add that the SNP are in cloud cuckoo land if they think they are a shoo-in for EU membership if they ever get their yes. Quite a few countries are ahead of Scotland on the waiting list and they are daring the EU to let Scotland in before them. It's far from cut and dried. I would genuinely prefer a EU implosion, shambolic as that would be. Ted Heath would have several serious crime charges to face if he was still alive but getting us into the EU with deceit and false promises is one of the worst.

Just like that other referendum, the British Establishment will never let us leave . You can bet they will roll out a very similar fear campaign on the run up to June . They will spell out dire consequences if we vote no this time. Cameron has too much too lose in a no vote so, he will do everything nearer the time to get the yes. .

[Stuart Dickson]

Just like that other referendum, the British Establishment will never let us leave . You can bet they will roll out a very similar fear campaign on the run up to June . They will spell out dire consequences if we vote no this time. Cameron has too much too lose in a no vote so, he will do everything nearer the time to get the yes. .

You're right in so far as we won't be allowed to leave. Just listen to what Cameron had to say on it on the day he announced the referendum date. Cameron said "You will decide and whatever your decision I will do my best to deliver it." Even Boris Johnson initially appeared to call for the electorate to vote out so that we could get better terms then have a second referendum to stay in. He was then forced to clarify his position and to accept that there wasn't going to be a second referendum. What I would say though is that I doubt Cameron has much to lose anyway. He's already stated he's stepping down at the end of this term and even if he is defeated in the referendum it appears it would fall to him to negotiate the UK's exit.

I look forward to the interesting debate. The different sides are setting themselves up nicely. Boris Johnson, George Galloway, Jim Sillars and Nigel Farage on one side and eurosceptics David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn on the same side as Nicola Sturgeon.